1962 Juliana 5 cent variant • A new "Double Die" ??

[Aardman]

Is this a new variant "Double Die" on a 1962 Juliana 5 cent, or is it just new to me???

I just got this coin back from PCGS and PCGS assigned it to a new item number of 909699, 1962 5C DDR. It was graded MS62BN! Currently, it is the only coin assigned to that item number. If it is a true Double Die there must be more out there.

I am from the US and new to posting on your forum, so please jump in, and offer any help you can. I have 6 nice pictures, but I am not sure how to load them all with this message, so I am only attaching 3 pictures now. I would like to hear your thoughts. Is this something new or is it just the more common machine doubling that we all see? Thank you all for any comments...

[$and€r]

That's a really nice one..

I'm one of a few Dutch coin collectors who appreciate this kind of varieties i guess..

[willemo]

Very nice!! I have one of 10 cents Juliana. You see them not very often but collectors like more the offcenter double dies.

[$and€r]

Very nice!! I have one of 10 cents Juliana. You see them not very often but collectors like more the offcenter double dies.

Hi Willemo,

I think you are not aware how a double die "arises"..
A so called "double die" coin is struck with a die were the "doubling" already is there on the die..
In the process of making the die, on some point the die moved/shifted a bit..

I noticed that most Dutch coin collectors still think that a double die coin is struck twice, but that's not the case.

In my humble opinion some "double die" coins should deserve a place in the catalog as a variety.. Like this one..
But years ago i made a poll here on the forum, and only a few agreed with me..

[$and€r]

I always cherry pick them from lots i buy per kilo..
Here is a nice example which i found in a old photo folder on my laptop..
I have much better in my collection, but no time to make photos..
You can see that the star and letters are "doubled" but the circulair line not..

Knipsel.JPG

[willemo]

Very nice!! I have one of 10 cents Juliana. You see them not very often but collectors like more the offcenter double dies.

Hi Willemo,

I think you are not aware how a double die "arises"..
A so called "double die" coin is struck with a die were the "doubling" already is there on the die..
In the process of making the die, on some point the die moved/shifted a bit..

I noticed that most Dutch coin collectors still think that a double die coin is struck twice, but that's not the case.

In my humble opinion some "double die" coins should deserve a place in the catalog as a variety.. Like this one..
But years ago i made a poll here on the forum, and only a few agreed with me..

Thanks Sander,

I am wondering how to you can spot the difference. They should exist both.

Is my 10 cent doubled die or double struck and how to spot the difference.

E9C40B07-523D-4914-B02A-A81EB7C83ABA.jpeg

( sorry didn’t have better picture at this time)

I would say the difference could be spotted by the missing edge of the planchet?

Fun fact to share according to wiki: This term is commonly misspelled "double die." (as it should be doubled die)

[$and€r]

Ik dacht eigenlijk ook dat het doubled die was, maar de topic starter had het ook over double..

De jouwe is de zogenaamde "machine doubling"..
Dan zitten de 'dubbele dingen' niet op het stempel bij aanvang van het slaan met het betreffende stempel..
Als voorbeeld zie je hieronder een 7 & 5, zoals je kan zien is het gedoubleerde niet een exacte kopie van de cijfers.
Ook het is dubbele wat meer afgevlakt..

Bij een doubled die, waar het dubbele tijdens het maken van het stempel ontstaat is dat wel het geval..
Daar is het dubbele een soort kopie van het origineel, maar dan alleen een stuk(je) verschoven..
Waar ik het meestal direct aan zie zijn de zogenaamde inkepingen..
Heb het aangegeven met blauwe pijltjes..
Bij de 'zogenaamde' doubled die munten zit het dubbele bij de eerste tot de laatst geslagen met munt erop,
bij machine doubling is dat niet het geval..
Vandaar dat ik vind dat doubled die munten gezien kunnen worden als een variant..


Overduidelijk voorbeeld van machine doubling

Machine Doubling.JPG

Overduidelijk voorbeeld van een doubled die..

doubled die.JPG

[Aardman]

Thanks for all the comments….

I am no expert, but the way I usually can tell the difference between the common machine doubling and the rare true double die (also called hub doubling) is by the shape of the top area of the doubled image. If the doubled image is flat topped, and looks more like a shelf it is usually machine doubling (also called mechanical doubling, strike doubling, ejection doubling, and shift doublings). If the doubled image top has shape, usually roundness and depth then it is usually the rarer type and a true double die.

Attached below are my other three pictures. I just noticed that you can double click the pictures to make them bigger....

[willemo]

Thanks,,

….
Vandaar dat ik vind dat doubled die munten gezien kunnen worden als een variant..

I agree. One should be considered a variety.. the other as misstrike.
I find it interesting that a doubled die is not noticed while placing the dies? And should they appear more often.

Is there also a third possible ‘doubeling’? The movement of a planchet ( or die?) during the strike?

…
I am no expert, but the way I usually can tell the difference between the common machine doubling and the rare true double die (also called hub doubling) is by the shape of the top area of the doubled image. If the doubled image is flat topped, and looks more like a shelf it is usually machine doubling (also called mechanical doubling, strike doubling, ejection doubling, and shift doublings). If the doubled image top has shape, usually roundness and depth then it is usually the rarer type and a true double die.

Attached below are my other three pictures. I just noticed that you can double click the pictures to make them bigger....

Thanks for the difference tell..

[Aardman]

Fun fact to share according to wiki: This term is commonly misspelled "double die." (as it should be doubled die)

I have never excelled at spelling, and you are correct. It should be written as “doubled die” and not as “double-die”. Thank you for pointing that out to me! I really appreciate your comment.

I now, also should change the spelling in the title for this topic? Is this allowed? What do you think?

Thank you
Aardman
First time poster on this site!

[willemo]

Fun fact to share according to wiki: This term is commonly misspelled "double die." (as it should be doubled die)

I have never excelled at spelling, and you are correct. It should be written as “doubled die” and not as “double-die”. Thank you for pointing that out to me! I really appreciate your comment.

I now, also should change the spelling in the title for this topic? Is this allowed? What do you think?

Thank you
Aardman
First time poster on this site!

No problem! I have the same problem with spelling

The title is okay, you can change it if you like it is allowed! It is a nice topic I learned something